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inc · Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:03 am Post subject: scottish independence?

for peanut mainly i guess. just wanted to know your thoughts about it and how likely it is to happend? are people aware of that your international power will be much limited, compared to the uk? the uk will also become less powerful. and why do you want independence? to keep the oil for yourselves? for your own flag? just random nationalism/english bashing? ive heard you have some really poor areas, but is that really englands fault?

Peanut · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 3:45 am Post subject:

Dont really have time to write the long answer to it just now ... so will do so another time but just to give you the short answer..

I guess you heard the National Party (SNP) became the largest party at the latest election ? the SNP only won 1 seat more than the traditional winners Labour and the reason for that was more to do with being a protest vote against the Labour parties foreign policy in Iraq rather than an upsurge in nationalistic feeling towards SNP's traditional stance on independence... huuuuge feeling against it in this country.

Besides... SNP only won something like 36% of the overall vote... so even counting the protest voters, that means something like 64% voted against SNP's traditional stance on independence. Even if SNP get their referendum which is highly unlikely... people wont vote for it.

Only reason I could see it possible is if... Labour failed at the next UK General Election and the Conservatives got back into power, the Scots wouldnt stand this as they have bad memories of Margaret Thatcher etc. I know this is sounding complicated now but just so you understand Scotland has a devolved government with limited power and still answerable to the UK government......... Wales has a Welsh assembly ( just a talking shop really) .. England still use the UK parliment only (which the English dont like because most of the big hitters are Scottish e.g. Blair, Gordon Brown, John Reid etc )

It is a complete myth that Scots dont like the English to be honest... you get a minority of right wing nutters and sheep that dont like each other for whatever reasons... I mostly find on my travels that most countries in Europe dislike the English far more than the Scots do. The act of Union 300 odd years ago or whatever was designed for us both to prosper in an new economic modern world when trade between countries around the world was just beginning and even though Im not proud of somethings the UK did e.g slavery etc the union did work.

On poor areas... where did you read this? I know that every country will have poor people somewhere ... some more than others but I honestly dont think we have a big problem like in some countries in Europe. Except 1 thing maybe, I think the way pensioners are being treated in this country is shocking at the moment.

I guess your answer is NOOOOOOOOO... it 99.999999999999999% wont happen

inc · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject:

ty for answering in such a beautiful fashion. i guess the swedish media has made this a much bigger deal then it really is then. Ive heard the National Party has almost promised the voters that they will get a vote in scotland on independence, is this not true?
the poor area thing was on the news a while ago, claiming scotland had big problems with very poor area's, is this claim also untrue? perhaps they compared it to sweden who got almost no really poor areas.
personally i think it would be a huge mistake to break the union, mainly for the decreese of international influence from the uk, you are stronger together.
but what are the argument from the national party about independence?

Peanut · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject:

The SNP cant promise anything really,.. they dont have a majority government. Any party to make a majority government in this country needs 65 seats where SNP have 47, Labour have 46, Liberal Democrats 16, Conservatives 17, Green Party 2, independent 1.

To get that Majority government to rule then parties need to merge to make that 65... the possibilities are alot as you can see but there is alot of stumbling blocks to make it so.

SNP need the Lib Dems + the Green Party on board to make that 65 but the Lib Dems will never enter a coalition with SNP until they drop the referendum vote on independence.

Labour would need the Lib Dems + the Conservatives but Conservatives are staunch opponents traditionally with Labour so that will never happen ! and besides Conservatives have always said they would never share power with anyone.

SNP's mandate all along was to promise a vote to the people on independence.... he cant go back on that, the SNP rank-and-file would never forgive him so he is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Besides... morally SNP did win and in this country the moral winners no matter how much of a majority should succeed to form a government.... everyone agrees on that but what are the probabilities?

In my opinion.. SNP wont get thier majority of 65 with coalitions and will setup a "Minority" government, which is a complete nightmare really where just about every issue will have to go to a vote and lots of time spent on debating. Also.. Alex Salmond (leader of SNP) will be surrounded by Unionists Labour, Conservative and Lib Dems and many of his proposals would be defated. Ultimately I fear another election will be called for in about a years time.

On the actual debate on whether or not we would be better going independent or not.... im sure someone like Barn would come onto this thread like the Red top, Murdoch lover, Daily Sun reader he is:mrgreen: and claim England would be better off without us or Wales or Northern Ireland. Well if that is the case then the British armed forces would cease to exist as an effective force (30% are Scots alone).. and we will have 30 years of oil pilfering back please... and your parliment would go downhill overnight ( not that that would be a bad thing Very Happy

).. and you can take your Nuclear Trident subs and stick them in the Thames etc etc

Personally im against all that.... theres too many countries in the world as it is. As you say it would dilute our effective power in so many things, politically, economically, militarily etc

If people would just think with their heads rather than their hearts. Im sure we could easily break away but it is just stupid to do so.

The only objection to the union I have is ignorant and uneducated people around the world and mainly in the U.S. who think Great Britain or the UK = England... Scotland and Wales are some kind of colonised states of England which I guess fuels public opinion to break away rather than lose their national identity. I guess it is a bit like people speaking about the Baltic states and meaning Estonia without mentioning Latvia and Lithuania.

Then there is the subject about the Monarchy..... I wont even go there

viva la republique!

p.s. I guess the Swedish media are taking bits of stories from places and sensationalising the story a bit to sell papers on the back of a possible "break up of Britain" or something... a bit like the poor areas thing aswell... Go to france and drive around the outskirts of Lyon and you soon realise what depravation is. I wouldnt say there is any more poor areas in Glasgow in proportion to somewhere like Liverpool or Manchester.

UK House of Commons image of the 'The Parliamentary Union of England and Scotland 1707' by Walter Thomas Monnington, completed in 1925 )

Peanut · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject:

Btw..

Ultimately what I think will happen is, once Labour actually sit up and take notice of the shabby way they have treated the electorate in the UK in general... they will go straight back in to power. But only if they learn that the people are their masters and not the other way about. For the last four years they have been ruling with impunity and people are starting to wake up to them.

Change their foreign policy, no more illegal and unjust wars, stupid id card plan, throw out their stupid plan to track everyones car and charge everyone on a "per mile" basis. Stupid hidden green taxes. Many more issues.

Oh, and I want my bin picked up every week rather than the ultimately stupid 2 week schedule they have brought in recently. Mad

mosseman · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject:

Believer · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject:

Peanut · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject:

Peanut · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:06 pm Post subject: